Jenn Tsang is the Founder of Sqwishful, a plant-powered and plastic-free brand of dishwashing tools. Born in NYC, raised in New Jersey, and currently living in Hong Kong--Jenn’s mission is both her business and her therapy. In this episode, resident Chillanthropist, Geraldine speaks with Jenn about how she manages technology and time zones with intention. Jenn reveals her candid story of developing Sqwishful after connecting a medical diagnosis to research regarding harmful chemicals like BPA found in plastics. While bringing awareness to climate change, Jenn turned an ordinary product into a message of positivity.
Transcript
INTRO
Geraldine: Welcome to Amplify Your Chill, a podcast exploring all the ways we make chill. I'm your host and resident chillanthropist Geraldine Mae Cueva, the artist formerly known as Gigi.
I met Jenn Tsang at the top of the decade in 2010 through a mutual friend--shout out, Dwight Lee. Our sisterhood has inspired and encouraged me to step into my power. I have watched her evolve both personally and professionally as she takes the world by storm with Sqwishful, her plant-powered and plastic-free brand of dishwashing tools with the mission to, “Be the change, we Sqwish to see”. Jenn is a New York living legend and master of the art of chill, currently a Hong Kong resident but always a New Yorker; Jenn is a natural when it comes to beast mode and managing how she makes chill.
Meet Jenn Tsang, my fair sponge lady.
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Geraldine: Welcome to Amplify Your Chill, this is your host Geraldine Mae Cueva. I'm so excited to have our guest on today that I've known for quite some time. She plays a special role in the world and the special role in my heart.
Jenn: Oh, thank you.
Geraldine: her name is Jenn Tsang and she is the founder of Sqwishful, among many other things and I am excited to have you on today, Jenn.
Jenn: I'm excited to be here.
Geraldine: Yeah, thank you so much, you know a lot of this, you know development around this podcast comes from what people don't really realize is the root of our friendship in a way which you know, our favorite activity is to chill and even in this moment as we're recording this podcast. I feel like there's a little element of that stillness and calmness between us that I really want to celebrate by having you on this podcast. So without further ado, I'd love for you to introduce yourself. Go ahead.
Jenn: I'm Jenn. I am originally from New York City, grew up in Jersey. I came back, went to NYU and I've pretty much lived in and around this city my whole life. Let's see two years ago, I fell in love, shout out to Ben...
Geraldine: Shout out to Ben! Hi Ben!
Jenn: And I moved to Hong Kong. And so now I split my time between New York and Hong Kong. It’s kind of wild but two great cities that I feel really lucky to spend a lot of time in.
Geraldine: So what brought you out to New York first, I know...
Jenn: Yeah, so I was born here. I was born up in the Heights and I've kind of lived all over… from you know, like East Village, Battery Park, Nolita… spent a lot of time in Brooklyn. I think it's interesting what I love about New York is it's this place of invention and reinvention. I feel like people come here to invent themselves and reinvent themselves. It's just a place that's always constantly changing.
Geraldine: Yeah, and I love that about New York.
Jenn: Yeah, and it kind of pushes you to be the same. And it's also you know, it's like the thing that I love about New York is also the thing that I hate about it.
Geraldine: I know.
Jenn: ‘Cos you know, it's like you fall in love with something right or it's a part of you in some way and it changes. And living here, you kind of have to expect that that's the case. It's just always shape-shifting. It's always evolving. It's always moving forward, moving on, which can sometimes be hard for...
Geraldine: Moving forward, moving on...
Jenn: Yeah, for someone who's like sentimental
Geraldine: Yeah, I'm very sentimental but...
Jenn: Me too.
Geraldine: It's funny that I mean, I agree. I think it until like opportunity kind of rang… I would have never, you know, got myself to leave here and I think like until I saw the separation of like what I was at… what was I holding onto was really sentiment… nostalgia.
Jenn: Well, it's just, you know, such a big part of our identity because you know, we both grew up here and you have so much memory of this place. It is kind of wild to move away and then come back and see it with old eyes… very new place. You know, it's like an old place but it's a constantly new place.
Geraldine: I know and that's what I love about being a non-resident now too… So yeah, that's true. So what you know when you first were here, I would love to hear about some of your fondest moments of New York if you know, I mean I can name ours, but you know, what about you as an individual, as a woman, you know you went to school out here. So how was that?
Jenn: Oh my gosh, fondest memories of New York. I love when it changes to fall. There's something about fall in New York. That is very sentimental. For me that was always a time of like yeah, of change and embracing change. I have so many memories of New York. It's really hard for me to pick a few.
Geraldine: Yeah a season is so great. You know, like I feel like for me it's like fall that transition into fall, but I love New York City summers, even though most people would hate it but New York City summers are wild in their own way... the late nights. So, what is your day-to-day like since you've left New York, you know, why don't you tell people a little bit about what you've been up to?
Jenn: Yeah. So, my life is about finding ways to align my values with my work last year. I launched Sqwishful, it's a sustainable sponge brand. We started making plant-based plastic free sponges but what we ended up doing was taking something ordinary and familiar and oddly satisfying and turning it into a message of hope and positivity. And I feel like that's what we need right now. And it's why I'm so excited to be here with you on this podcast because if… because I feel like I'm constantly really interested in learning, you know, how people are thriving and how people are managing their wellness with all this change and honestly, like negativity. I really believe that there is an art to staying positive. There is an art to making chill.
Geraldine: Yeah. I know and I agree. I mean, I pretty much have faced everything I'm doing on understanding that art… creating that art of chill and you know, I’m excited to use this platform with the podcast to, you know, talk with people and allow them to share how artful their day-to-day is. I do believe that discipline and intention and passion kind of all create art, and we're all artists of what that chill actually means and you know, whether they align with our values or not, I've always loved how as women for you and I like that's something that we're always trying to aim for like, how is this going to be serving our goals as much as it's serving our business?
Jenn: One of the things that I really value is finding balance. I feel like I didn't have that before and so when I kind of reset my life when years ago that was something really important to me. And you know, it's hard running a start-up as is, it's even harder when you're running in from the other side of the world. So every day is different.
Geraldine: Yeah, tell us about what your day-to-day is like, you know, being in Hong Kong 12 hours from New York.
Jenn: Yeah, it's crazy. So every time I go to bed everyone I know, everyone I care about or do business with, is waking up and it is really hard to keep you know about normal business hours. So what I try to do because every day is so different, I just tried to manage the first hour and the last hour of my day.
Geraldine: Genius.
Jenn: And it's so simple. It's just, you know, try to wake up at the same time. I always eat breakfast. I do the dishes, I make the bed and I get my day started and then it just feels like no matter what the day throws at me all day long, I have these bookends that I can kind of come back to, you know, anything that's routine can be elevated to ritual with just intention… with just approaching it with mindfulness. And I think when we do that, we create this clarity for ourselves that's important. Just like a pause for a moment. Yeah to say like, okay. I'm here and just be present.
Geraldine: Yeah, I love that. I love that you have that routine with yourself because at the end of the day, you know working in a start-up and I both know that the unexpected is pretty much a regular thing, fires all day long. So in the middle of all that chaos, it's smart to kind of approach it as like, okay, this is how I start my morning and this is how I wind down towards the end of my night.
Jenn: The wind down is super important and actually Ben… he's really into sleep science and he's taught me so much about the topic, you know, we really try to switch off which is hard especially because of the 12-hour time difference and wanting to kind of get ahead of, you know, people waking up. It takes a lot to put the phone away right before bed. But you know, it's really important so we try to be mindful about it.
Geraldine: Yeah, that's great. I mean, I think you know with the phone, you know, like for you and being away from a lot of us, you know, that level of communication also takes another type of intention too because you're dealing with time zones and things like that. So, how do you manage that?
Jenn: It's really hard like, yeah. I love technology, it's the most powerful way to connect and connectivity is everything but we're still becoming self-aware with technology. We haven't had this level of access or you know, this constant being switched on before and so I feel like we're still learning. We're still growing. We're still becoming self-aware with these tools with the technology and I don't love everybody looking down all the time at their phone. I don't love having you do a million things or be a part of a million conversations all the time.
Geraldine: I know, I mute the group chats most of the time.
Jenn: I feel like it's really hard to be authentic when you're trying to, you know, when you're always being reactive… trying to respond to too many things. We have too many things at once. it's just very, it's very no chill for me. No, chill.
Geraldine: Yeah, no, I feel that. I mean, you know, what is in terms of no chill like let's talk a little bit about how your day is disrupted. You know, like what brings you no chill... I love the resistance in this question because it's so interesting to hear what people you know, like there's probably a million annoyances that we all have but you know, we're all so unique so like individual things annoy us you know or not even annoy us but kind of like keep us off balance. So what is that like for you?
Jenn: Technology is definitely a no chill moment, many many moments. I rely on technology for kind of everything but to run the business, to stay connected with all my friends and my family… It's both a gateway and a constant source of frustration for me. I think one of the things that frustrates me about technology is that it's kind of redefined what it means to run a business. And I think that there's a lot to learn from technology and how people build technology and tech start-ups but it's not the only playbook and it's not you know, the only way that you can run a business. But it has kind of redefined and reshaped what we think of a success, and a lot of that playbook is very aggressive and very like no chill. Someone asked me once if I think if Sqwishful as a business or if I think of it as therapy. And I think the truth is both. But what it really made me realize is I'm not meant to do work that doesn't challenge me to be a higher self.
Geraldine: I agree. Yeah, I feel that way about myself too.
Jenn: If it's not, you know pushing me to evolve right or embrace change. Or to grow as a person… It's just work that I'm not meant to do and I think that you know, that for me that is therapy.
Geraldine: Yeah, I agree.
Jenn: Cleaning is also therapy.
Geraldine: Yeah, exactly.
Jenn: Cleaning is a big part of my ritual. That's how I start the day. It's how I end the day. It is, you know, not unique to me. Studies have shown that doing 15 minutes of cleaning a day can help with depression. There is something very therapeutic of being able to do something from start to finish, see immediate results, and be present in that activity. So cleaning is also very therapeutic.
Geraldine: Yeah. I love that. What are some other things that help you, you know, manage. You know that cleaning is therapeutic, what are some other things that create that sort of chill-balance mindfulness moments of like stillness?
Jenn: I think in the same way that I make time for everything. I'm very process-driven.
Geraldine: Right, I can see that.
Jenn: Yeah, I make time for these small really mundane, everyday things that I do and then I make time for all of you know, kind of extraordinarily impossible heavy lifting around the business that I do. I also trym but need to work harder at making time for just things that I love which I think I need to get better at.
Geraldine: What are those things?
Jenn: I love to bowl. Yeah. I love bowling. There's just something about not really competing with anyone else just yourself, right and you just have to do the exact same thing every single time and not let you know you being in your own head. Get in the way of that. For me, I love bowling like it's something that if you know, I had like a Sqwishful headquarters, we have a bowling alley.
Geraldine: I love that. It'll be the basement.
Jenn: I love it.
Geraldine: Yeah, we used to bowl like back in the day we had that crazy list of those bowling names. What is it like?
Jenn: My spare lady.
Geraldine: My spare lady.
Jenn: Bowls deep.
Geraldine: I mean if anyone's looking for bowling team names, I got a nice list.
Jenn: Guacabowle.
Geraldine: Guacabowle.
Jenn: We had a bunch of like dim sum Wu-Tang names too.
Geraldine: Yeah exactly. I mean, I could pull up that list, you know, we can just let's just look at it for a moment. You know, you always said you wanted to bowl a 300.
Jenn: That's like my life goal.
Geraldine: That's your life goal.
Jenn: That and seeing every James Turrell sky space.
Geraldine: I feel that, Hans Bowlo.
Jenn: That's a good one.
Geraldine: Yeah, Sparrey Potter.
Jenn: Sparrey Potter.
Geraldine: Sparrey Potter and the Spareis Stone.
Jenn: Spare bears.
Geraldine: Spare bears. I love that one. Truth or spare. Love it. Bowl so hard motherfuckers want to strike me. Yeah. We were creative like I'm scrolling through this… The greatest bowl team that ever lived. I mean we got a list for days. This could name at least like 30 teams… more than 30… bowlimia, bowlgogi.
Jenn: Bowlgogi.
Geraldine: Bowlfinger. Anyways, that's amazing. So, you know we talked about we talked a little bit about you know being… did you talk about being Asian yet?
Jenn: Like no. Yeah.
Geraldine: Yeah. So tell me a little bit more about you know, you've led a different kind of path than most, you know model minorities and things of that nature, you know, especially even though most Asians… I shouldn't say most Asians, but as Asians were very specific about how we clean and organize our house, you know choose off at the door but being an Asian woman in the cleaning home industry is really disruptive you're doing something that is, you know something it is something ordinary kitchen sponges things of that nature and everyday chore, but you're bringing something hopeful and positive not only to a home but to the overall world. I know you talked about plastic being something that causes no chill and is a basis of the Sqwishful, you know, combating that conversation around materials and things like that for the home, but you know, I would love to understand a little bit more about how you manage your emotions around this like larger, you know anti everything you're doing and being like this the small fish just like trucking along and sharing your message there's a lot of emotion that goes into that, you know.
Jenn: It is and I think I mean it's a David and Goliath situation. It's interesting because you know, the cleaning industry is a multi-billion dollar industry and it is very tightly controlled by just a handful of really big, you know, International conglomerates. And so, you know all the things that I originally, you know wondered about like wow this is a product that is so universal. It's so ubiquitous. Basically every single American home has one… why aren't there more? Why isn't you know this is something that is constantly being innovated? Why is it kind of been stuck in time in this way? And it's because there's no competition. There's you know, such few companies and it's competition that drives innovation that drives change, so it's definitely an industry that is kind of stuck in the past in a way. But what I'm really excited about is I think more and more I am seeing more emerging brands and a lot more women owned brands. I think in cleaning there can be more people of color. I feel like there's less inclusivity there because ‘cos it's you know a touchy thing. It's like, you know, does that remind us of you know, colonial capitalism. Does it feel, you know, like is it referencing something we'd rather not but I think everybody does the dishes… everybody. And so or, you know, everyone cleans their home and I think that if it makes us uncomfortable to see a woman of color, a man of color, you know doing these things like that's a real conversation we need to be having. Why can't you know people of color be cleaning? Why does it make you know mainstream media uncomfortable to put that on a cover of a magazine, you know, you should talk about that.
Geraldine: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. No, definitely that is and I feel like you're combating that every step of the way, you know with your message with your brand.
Jenn: I mean, I think with all things I did have a very unusual kind of path, you know, I went to NYU for media studies. It was kind of my back door to art school, because I wasn't allowed to go to art school. I was supposed to be an accountant or a lawyer or a doctor, you know something with prestige. But I wanted to design things and I saw that NYU had this program and I went from there. I took so many turns to get to where I am now from, you know moving to Hong Kong for a month and being offered a job to work at Wong Kar Wai Film Studio to working for different architects where I really fell in love with, you know bridging my kind of intellectual interest which is in semiotic which is in, you know, ideology and marrying that with designing interaction in real space. I feel like brand was really kind of in the Venn diagram of things right that overlapping slice and so when I came out I actually worked in a number of brand and marketing roles in, I guess, you could say like a very independent creative downtown scene. Then I transitioned to digital which I think was like a natural progression. Yeah, in terms of, you know, taking my brand and marketing experience and then translating it into designing for behavior. And then I took that and I went into consulting. I was consulting for a few years and then something changed for me.
I went to the doctor and I had a check up one day and I found out that I have PCOS which is polycystic ovarian syndrome. And for those of you listening who are not familiar or don't have ovaries. It's an endocrine disorder. And you know, I went to different doctors and I got everything from don't worry about it, it'll just go away by itself to maybe you should have kids and have your ovaries removed. So it was all over the place. I decided to take research into my own hands and the one thing that kept coming up that actually started me on my minimal waste kind of journey was connection between endocrine disorders like PCOS and BPA which is a chemical used to make plastic and I mean these studies were coming out from all over the world independent of each other. Doctors and China and Israel and Greece all over right were saying the same thing and I thought why isn't there any conversation about this PCOS is the leading cause of infertility in women of childbearing age over 5 million women in the US have it, so it's pretty common but you're not hearing, you know about its it's just this perceptions. Like if you can't have a child if you can't, you know, you know conceived right somehow it's just well, you know wasn't in the cards for you. It's the woman's fault. But actually there's so much in our environment that we don't see.
Geraldine: Yeah, you're right.
Jenn: Around us that could have an effect on our health on our reproductivity on our health.
Geraldine: Yes when you're yeah on our health on a reproductivity of for us dealing with having ovaries.
Jenn: So that's really how I got here. I, you know, I went down to the bodega one day and I needed a new sponge and I wanted a plastic free one and I couldn't find one. Yeah, so, you know two years later here we are.
Geraldine: I know that's true. I mean, what a mission right one sqwish at a time.
Jenn: Yeah. It was a really kind of curvy way and you know, maybe I should have become a lawyer or a doctor.
Geraldine: Yea, no, no.
Jenn: Shout out to all the lawyers and doctors though!
Geraldine: Like yeah protecting us and serving us.
Jenn: Yeah, you guys need sponges?
Geraldine: Yeah, right. They probably do... I like when we were talking about the way that you start and end your day, but you know, what are some other methods or processes that you use or have to manage even like your own emotions or your communication being that you're traveling, you know from two different worlds… time zones and things.
Jenn: I do stay connected with family friends and most importantly, with my partner, Ben. Communication is, I mean, it's the very you know, it's the cornerstone of every relationship. So I have to be really intentional right about staying connected about communicating. I think about managing my emotions day-to-day, I just try to live a healthy mindful lifestyle.
Geraldine: Yeah, and so what was that look like for you? What are the basics?
Jenn: It's having rituals that help me slow down and be present. It's eating healthy. We cook most of our meals at home and that actually breaks up my day, as well. So I work all day then I have lunch and then around 4:00 to 4:30. I stop everything. I go down to the market and I make dinner and that process of doing that again breaks up the day, slows me down, allows me to be present and I have dinner with Ben. We talk about our day and then after that I go back to work. You know, for another few hours because you know, my 9 o'clock is 9 a.m. in New York. So I need to make sure that I'm connected that you know, I'm taking calls… and then I'll work for another few hours and then the last hour I really try to just switch off. And that's the hardest actually. That's the hardest one is switching off at night because so much of our entertainment is being connected. It's like being on the gram or like, you know looking at something on a screen. That's really the hardest one, but I try to switch off and try to read something and just to give my mind a chance to really wind down. Those are all things on a day-to-day. If it's not day to day and it's something you know that I would love to be doing let's say weekly or monthly, is sound meditation.
Geraldine: Oh, yes, we talked about that the other night.
Jenn: I'm all about the sound meditation.
Geraldine: Explain that a little bit more. What kind?
Jenn: Yeah. So the first time I did it was with crystal singing bowls. Tuning forks and Kochi Chimes. And it's just such an incredible experience to have these sounds and vibrations move through your body. I felt like that first time for me was very cerebral and it really helped me to achieve clarity much in the same way that you achieve when you meditate. You really kind of clear your mind and that gives you a chance to kind of realign your thoughts when you come out of that. I felt like sound meditation kind of pulled me into that state of mind much quicker. Recently, Ben and I have done gong baths which are with Asian gongs and it's such a different experience for me. Like I feel like it's much more physical and we actually did get suspended in hammocks. So it was really intense because you could feel the vibration. Through your whole body.
Geraldine: So incredible.
Jenn: Like under you and everything ‘cos there's no floor.
Geraldine: Yeah, I need to do that.
Jenn: It was so intense and I was talking to the sound instructor and she was saying how every time she strikes the gong you get 70% of that vibration but she absorbs 30% of it. So that energy is not only moving from the instrument but through her body and through yours.
Geraldine: Oh my gosh.
Jenn: Which is really amazing.
Geraldine: It's insane.
Jenn: Yeah, when you think about, you know, the science of that in the same way that when you play music you can see ripples on water. Like that's what our bodies are made of and she said she was like, you know, when I strike the gong and the vibration moves it moves straight to where it's needed most. So, you know, if you're feeling pain in your body, or if you're having let's say some inflammation somewhere, you know, it'll know to go there. Yeah, just work it out.
Geraldine: Wow, I like that molecular level. Yeah, that's vibrating.
Jenn: I mean, I can't do that every day. I would love to learn how to...
Geraldine: Imagine waking up every morning. It's like hey, this is a hard...reset.
Jenn: That would be amazing.
Geraldine: So incredible.
Jenn: And if I figure out how to do that on future episodes we can start the episode with like a gong.
Geraldine: A gong, I love that because I you know that I love that you said start the episode with it because it almost feels like you know, I I've been recording these episodes for the season and I think that every time I start a new one, it's been really almost like a reset even for me like, okay… I'm going to be engaging with my guests and figuring out like, where's this conversation going to go about how we're discussing whatever we're talking about in terms of chill or who they are and you know, exploring some of those things that their practices that allow them to seek that balance and I think everyone is very unique and so even the thing the ways that they practice or what annoys them or you know, it all varies and it is such a beautiful thing to kind of settle into, you know, as I listen to everybody and you know, I feel they actualize but what I think this conversation is meant to be and to celebrate. It's really exciting. So it's almost like the gong is like feels celebratory. Like here we go again, like everybody are you ready to engage in this conversation because you know, not only do I feel like it's very necessary. But I think that it should be celebrated. And it is about you know, I think great chill. It is a hard reset, every time you achieve that level it's because you've started again. And I love that concept of knowing that you are in control of that.
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OUTRO:
Geraldine: This episode was recorded at a listening party in Canal Street Market produced by Cloud Studios. Music created by and produced by Fast Lane James. Artwork designed by Jewelyn Butron and last but not least, shout out to the ladies of the Present Shop. Thank you for listening. And this is Amplify Your Chill. For more information on the work I am doing or how I make chill, follow my journal via Instagram @artandtimesofchill.